Robbert Dijkgraaf is the new face of international science: ‘Sometimes we can help bring peace’

Former education minister Dijkgraaf is the new president of the International Science Council. He advocates international cooperation, even in times of war. “Scientists from every country must be able to keep talking to each other.”

Physicist Robbert Dijkgraaf, who gave up his job in Princeton to become education minister in the Netherlands for D66, still sees himself as a scientist. He has flown to Japan, the US and China this week and wondered: could all those jet lags cancel each other out?

That hypothesis has been disproved, he laughs ruefully. The jet lags mostly seemed to reinforce each other. We speak when it is Friday evening in Beijing. Dijkgraaf has just taken over the presidency from his New Zealand predecessor at the International Science Council congress.

“Perhaps few people in the Netherlands know the ISC, but it is well known here in China”, says Dijkgraaf. “Chinese science has developed spectacularly in recent years.”

Figurehead

For the next four years, Dijkgraaf will be the figurehead for international science. He will advise the head of the United Nations and travel from country to country to talk about the importance of academic freedom. He will do this alongside his professorship at the University of Amsterdam.

The ISC was established in 2018 through the merger of two international science councils. Its headquarters are in Paris. It has 266 academies, unions and other organisations as members, from almost every country in the world.

“We want to stand up for science”, Dijkgraaf explains. “We see scientists’ freedom under pressure almost everywhere. We already feel the effects of that in the Netherlands, but colleagues in other countries face much greater pressure. International cooperation, for example, is increasingly seen as a risk to national security.”

That is a striking message from someone who, as minister, proposed screening students and researchers from countries considered to pose a risk. He wanted to prevent the theft of knowledge and protect national security.

The KNAW still sees your bill on knowledge security as the prime example of a government threatening academic freedom.

Dijkgraaf: “But in the end, the bill was not introduced. We faced criticism, including from the KNAW, and listened to it. I also said afterwards that scientists themselves should really make these decisions, because they have the expertise required. They can determine with surgical precision which knowledge needs to be protected and which does not.”

Have you changed your mind, then?

“We shouldn’t close the doors unnecessarily. Make no mistake: in 1985, China accounted for less than one per cent of global scientific output; now it accounts for a third. It is in the Netherlands’ interest to retain access to that knowledge.”

You were education minister in 2022 when Russia attacked Ukraine. You called on higher education institutions to immediately end cooperation with Russia.

“Yes, that is a political decision by a democratic government. But the ISC is not an association of countries or institutions. We are simply scientists from all over the world. There has to be somewhere that countries can talk to each other, however difficult their relations may be.”

You don’t expel any countries?

“We still have the science academies of both North Korea and South Korea as members. Israel’s and Palestine’s. Russia’s and Ukraine’s. China’s and Taiwan’s. It is a very sensitive issue and they may go to great lengths to avoid each other, but if you throw countries out, you soon end up with a very small association.”

So what does their membership achieve?

“Scientists can still maintain contacts that are no longer politically possible. For example, researchers from the United Kingdom and France are conducting research in North Korea into a huge volcano that could erupt at any moment. It is in all our interests to know how it is doing. And the same applies to the next pandemic: wherever it breaks out in the world, everyone will want to get information about it.”

Do you think this kind of cooperation can lead to peace?

“Of course, I don’t know whether we will ever manage to have fewer wars. But a good example from the Cold War is the ‘International Geophysical Year’. Earth scientists from America and the Soviet Union worked together, helping to pave the way for the Antarctic Treaty, under which the two superpowers agreed to keep military installations off the South Pole. That is quite remarkable. Things like that may not happen often, but they are the gold medal of science diplomacy. Sometimes we can help bring peace.”

Dijkgraaf has more examples of remarkable international cooperation. Astronauts from both Russia and the US float around aboard the International Space Station. The SESAME particle accelerator is in Jordan, where scientists from Turkey, Egypt, Pakistan, Israel and the Palestinian territories, among others, work together.

Dijkgraaf: “Geopolitics is about economic interests and security. Science is rarely discussed, even though academic freedom is declining around the world and cooperation is being made to look suspicious. That is why we scientists have to step onto the stage ourselves.”