{"id":5657,"date":"2015-12-17T11:00:55","date_gmt":"2015-12-17T10:00:55","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.erasmusmagazine.nl\/en\/?p=44169"},"modified":"2025-12-19T11:22:19","modified_gmt":"2025-12-19T10:22:19","slug":"pauline-van-der-meer-mohr-ik-word-zelden-boos","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.erasmusmagazine.nl\/en\/2015\/12\/17\/pauline-van-der-meer-mohr-ik-word-zelden-boos\/","title":{"rendered":"Pauline van der Meer Mohr: \u2018I hardly ever get angry\u2019"},"content":{"rendered":"
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Pauline van der Meer Mohr<\/span><\/p>

\n\t\n\n<\/svg>\n<\/span>\n\tImage by:<\/span>\n\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\tSanne van der Most<\/a>\t\t\t\t\t<\/span>\n\t<\/p>\n<\/figcaption><\/figure>

She came from a bank (ABN AMRO), and after spending six years in academia, she\u2019s returning to her first love: banking. But she\u2019s certainly sad to leave, says Pauline van der Meer Mohr, the departing Chairwoman of the Executive Board. Running EUR was much more to her than just a job in between two other jobs. \u2018Universities are incredibly interesting; there\u2019s real substance there.\u2019<\/p>\n

We meet Pauline van der Meer Mohr on a day when 1 December, the day on which she will cease to be Erasmus University\u2019s Chairwoman of the Board, is drawing near. In a way, she kind of left the university in September, when she assumed her position as a member of the Executive Board of British bank HSBC. She is combining the banking job, which will take up a week of each month, with positions on the boards of ASML, DSM and EY, as well as positions on boards of a few cultural organisations. For the first time in her life, she is embarking on a life in which she is no longer part of one organization, but will have more control over her own time. She\u2019s looking forward to it, but knows she\u2019s going to miss her current employer, the university, particularly the people with whom she has collaborated. \u2018I have incredibly nice colleagues here.\u2019 However, she\u2019s not sorry to turn her back on very slow administrative procedures. \u2018It takes years to get anything done here.\u2019 Although she describes her style of management in terms of \u2018considering and discussing everything together, solving issues and creating support\u00b4, a style of management which would seem to be highly suited to an academic environment, she found the transition from the business community challenging.<\/p>\n\n\t

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\n\t\t\u2018The Executive Board shouldnot try to have complete control over everything.\u2019\n\t<\/blockquote>\n\n\t<\/figure>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t<\/div>\n

What was the hardest thing to get used to?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u2018In the business community you are paid to provide answers, share your visions, and steer the company in a certain direction. At universities, on the other hand, a lot of employees are great believers in doubt. Any self-respecting scientist cherishes doubt. Scientists don\u2019t take anything for granted; they are paid not to take anything for granted. So if you approach them with a preconceived idea along the lines of, \u201cI think we need to head in this direction,\u201d their responses are likely to be: \u201cBut why?\u201d \u201cBased on what hypothesis?\u201d or \u201cWhy should we head in a different direction at all?\u201d That took some getting used to.\u2019<\/p>\n

In the business community you were allowed to be more of an enlightened despot?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u2018I wouldn\u2019t put it like that, but people responded in a different way. They\u2019d think, \u201cYou\u2019re the boss, you\u2019re paid to know in which direction we\u2019re supposed to be heading, so tell us what to do.\u201d If I chose the wrong direction, we\u2019d end up debating; we were not some Roman army with a general who made all the decisions. But it was easier to say, \u201cGuys, we\u2019ve talked about it long enough now, and this is what we\u2019re doing. If you don\u2019t agree, feel free to leave.\u201d<\/p>\n

\u2018Here employees will sometimes resist the changes managers are trying to make, be it consciously or subconsciously, visibly or invisibly, subversively or otherwise, for a long time. That\u2019s why it\u2019s so important that you draw up strategies together and that you get the deans to co-own the process \u2013 not just the problems, but the solutions. To enter in a process together and try to determine what it is we\u2019re trying to achieve and what really matter to us. It\u2019s vital that the Executive Board does not try to have complete control over everything.\u2019<\/p>\n

Have you ever been accused of doing that?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u2018What generally happened was that any proposal I made generated a fairly basic discussion, featuring questions such as, \u201cWhat exactly are we trying to achieve?\u201d \u201cWhat is the problem we\u2019re trying to solve?\u201d and \u201cIn which direction are we going to look for a solution?\u201d The organisation\u2019s metabolism is slow, and I wanted to speed things up a little.<\/p>\n

It sometimes took us years to achieve something. Take the new strategic plan, for instance. It took us a year just to come up with all the ideas. After that it took us another year to identify all the priorities. In the end, we got something we were all in favour of, but I would have liked to do it in half the time. In the world I came from, things went considerably faster. Chop, chop, chop: identify the problem, propose a solution, implement the solution.\u2019<\/p>\n

Is that one of the reasons why you\u2019re leaving?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u2018Oh no, that has nothing to do with it. I\u2019ve had six utterly brilliant years here. I\u2019d have loved to stay for another two years, to complete my term in office. Thing is, since all three members of the Executive Board were appointed at the same time, we\u2019d all have to leave together, as well. That\u2019s not a great situation, because it would leave you with an entirely new Executive Board as of 1 January 2018. So we came up with the idea of leaving one after the other, and it struck us as logical that the chairperson would be the first to leave. We were still discussing when I\u2019d be leaving when HSBC knocked on my door and asked me to join their Board, which was something I\u2019d wanted for a long time. So in consultation with the Supervisory Board we decided that I\u2019d leave now, but I wouldn\u2019t have minded staying on for another year.\u2019<\/p>\n

Despite the fact that changes were a long time in the making, did you manage to achieve everything you hoped to achieve?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u2018By and large, yes. For instance, I couldn\u2019t help noticing that our university tends to emphasise the core processes of education and research. We pride ourselves on our position in the various rankings, and rightly so. We pay a lot of attention to these things and are quite professional when it comes to these things. But when I first came here, I was appalled at the lack of investment in the supporting services. The university had not invested in its supporting staff \u2013 some people had not taken a training course for five years, or had no training whatsoever to prepare them for the jobs they were doing. Nor had it invested in its systems. There was a lack of management information, and the ICT systems were all incompatible and had been connected in a makeshift fashion. Our scientists and lecturers deserve better supporting systems, and our supporting staff deserves to be supported better itself. As Executive Board we improved the university\u2019s operational management.\u2019<\/p>\n

What other things are you proud of?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u2018Our campus, obviously, with the Erasmus Pavilion and the theatre. That\u2019s something that bears my fingerprint. I really wanted more attention for culture and the arts, both on the business campus and in the curriculum. And now we\u2019ve signed a partnership agreement with Codarts and the Willem de Kooning Academy, which makes me really happy. In a while our students will be able to enrol in electives at an art school, and vice versa, as a minor, as a dual degree, or possibly as a summer course. The University College also fits into this development, with its liberal arts and honours classes.\u2019<\/p>\n\n\t

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\n\t\t\u2018Glaciers will melt faster than we\u2019ll make progress on workforce diversity\u2019\n\t<\/blockquote>\n\n\t\t\t
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We expect you\u2019ll be less sanguine about the university\u2019s workforce diversity policy?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u2018I think that\u2019s the thing I\u2019ve been most frustrated with over the last six years: the fact that the number of female professors at this university is still so low. I really believed I\u2019d change all that when I was appointed to the Board. We\u2019ve gone from 11 percent \u2013 the number when I first arrived here \u2013 to 14 or 15 percent, which is not much of an improvement. So it\u2019s not an easy job to take on. I\u2019ve really had to admit that it\u2019s a hard nut to crack. I had this one moment of rebellion where I considered announcing this past Dies Natalis, \u201cOh, and by the way, my last decision as Chairwoman of the Board was to ensure that over the next five years, every third professor appointed at this university must be female.\u201d But I know it would never happen.\u2019<\/p>\n

Did that make you angry?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u2018I hardly ever get angry. I can\u2019t remember ever being angry here. Management by fear can be effective, only everyone starts laughing whenever I pretend I\u2019m angry. I\u2019ve never made the cups of coffee shake in their saucers. That\u2019s not me. I\u2019d rather negotiate and persuade.\u2019<\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/p>\n

Wouldn\u2019t you have preferred to bring down your fist when it came to workforce diversity?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u2018Yes, I would have loved to, but unfortunately, it was not up to me to make these decisions on my own. I often considered vetoing appointments, but that\u2019s a useless strategy. By the time I\u2019m presented with an appointment, it\u2019s generally a done deal. It\u2019s no use vetoing it.\u2019<\/p>\n

Why not?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u2018Because appointments must be carried by the Doctorate Board [which is made up of the deans of all faculties, ed.], and they\u2019re the problem. It\u2019s their job to propose more female candidates. The candidates exist; the only thing we have to do is appoint them to a position. But glaciers will melt faster than we\u2019ll make progress when it comes to accomplish workforce diversity. I couldn\u2019t improve things, and I\u2019m sad to leave the situation like this.\u2019<\/p>\n

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Collegevoorzitter Pauline van der Meer Mohr<\/span><\/p>

\n\t\n\n<\/svg>\n<\/span>\n\tImage by:<\/span>\n\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\tSanne van der Most<\/a>\t\t\t\t\t<\/span>\n\t<\/p>\n<\/figcaption><\/figure><\/div>

All right, back to banking, then. What exactly are you going to do?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u2018I\u2019m going to be a non-executive director with HSBC. In other words, I\u2019ll be a member of the Executive Board, which is comprised of executive and non-executive members who are jointly responsible for managing the bank at the holding level. In addition, I\u2019ll be on two committees: the remuneration committee, which deals with remuneration of the bank\u2019s executives, and the conduct and values committee, which deals with standards, values, conduct and risks.\u2019<\/p>\n

You have been known to criticise banks over the last few years, especially with regard to the bonuses, which you called exorbitant. Has anything changed in that regard?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u2018First of all, I\u2019ll be in a rather different position than I used to be. I\u2019m going to be a supervisor. I\u2019m going to be more in charge of everything now and will be able to ask critical questions about everything, so I\u2019ll be in a much better position to influence people and send them in the right direction. Secondly, banking has really changed since the global financial crisis, eight years ago now. Thirdly, I\u2019ll be working at a different bank. And it helps that I\u2019ve always remained interested in the banking industry, even after I left it myself.\u2019<\/p>\n

So what is interesting about the banking industry?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u2018Banks are absolutely fascinating institutions. Without the services provided by financial institutions, the economy will grind to a halt. These services are basic needs, highly emotional services. They determine whether or not you\u2019ll be able to have a meal tomorrow, whether or not you\u2019ll be able to pay your mortgage. These are really essential things. If you\u2019re unable to access your money, this is basically an existential threat. To most regular people, the services provided by banks are essential to their daily lives.<\/p>\n

\u2018It\u2019s not about the money they create; it\u2019s all about confidence. That\u2019s a bank\u2019s main product. Over the last few years, this confidence has been severely eroded, and it\u2019s only gradually being restored. To me, that\u2019s just fascinating. Being able, as a non-executive director, to contribute to the question as to how the banking industry as a whole, and individual banks within that industry, can contribute to restoring consumer confidence.\u2019<\/p>\n

What else are you going to do?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u2018I already was on the supervisory boards of ASML and DSM, and now I\u2019m on EY\u2019s supervisory board, as well. In addition, I\u2019m on the boards of the Concertgebouw Fund and of the Nederlands Dans Theater. And I have a little more room in my agenda for other things, but I\u2019m not sure yet what they\u2019re going to be.\u2019<\/p>\n

Will you spending more time at home soon?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u2018Absolutely. Over the last six years, I\u2019ve been otherwise engaged nearly every evening. Two of my children are still at home and I\u2019m really looking forward to being able to share some pasta with them at six o\u2019clock of an evening. And I\u2019m really looking forward to being able to sit on the sofa and read a paper a little more often, even if my kids laugh at me whenever I say so.\u2019<\/p>\n\n\t

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\n\t\t\u2018I\u2019m really looking forward to being able to sit on the sofa and read a paper\u2019\n\t<\/blockquote>\n\n\t<\/figure>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t<\/div>\n

Three wishes for the university <\/h2>\n\t
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De redactie<\/h2>\n\t\t\n\t\t
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