{"id":173913,"date":"2024-12-02T11:56:37","date_gmt":"2024-12-02T10:56:37","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.erasmusmagazine.nl\/en\/?p=173913"},"modified":"2026-02-10T16:28:34","modified_gmt":"2026-02-10T15:28:34","slug":"speaking-with-iraqi-women-about-leadership-this-is-how-we-can-truly-make-a-difference","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.erasmusmagazine.nl\/en\/2024\/12\/02\/speaking-with-iraqi-women-about-leadership-this-is-how-we-can-truly-make-a-difference\/","title":{"rendered":"Speaking with Iraqi women about leadership: \u2018This is how we can truly make a difference\u2019"},"content":{"rendered":"

Professor Hanneke Takkenberg is part of a unique international project. Together with her team, she travelled to Iraq to help women from the ministry of Interior with leadership training. The first part of the programme took place in November, and they will return in early December for the follow-up.<\/p>\n

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Participants of the EUAM Iraq leadership course.<\/span><\/p>

\n\t\n\n<\/svg>\n<\/span>\n\tImage by:<\/span>\n\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\tEUAM Iraq<\/span>\t\t\t\t\t<\/span>\n\t<\/p>\n<\/figcaption><\/figure>

How was it in Iraq?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u201cIt\u2019s not exactly like arriving at an airport and hailing an Uber. I knew that much. I landed in Baghdad at four in the morning. I was travelling alone, as the rest of the team was already there. I still had to go through customs. I was carrying fifty tins of stroopwafels for the women in our programme. The customs officers were quite unsettled by that: why does someone need so many tins?<\/p>\n

\u201cAfter that, I was put into a large armoured vehicle with these G.I. Joe types wearing bulletproof vests, who were tasked with driving me to the hotel in Baghdad. We travelled in a convoy for safety. As soon as we left the airport, the vehicle was pulled over behind another armoured Range Rover. A heavily armed guard carrying two rifles approached us. It felt like a scene from a film. I thought: \u2018What\u2019s going on here? At least I have good insurance.\u2019 They tossed the rifles into our car \u2013 huge AK-47s \u2013 and then we continued driving.<\/p>\n

\u201cOnce inside Baghdad\u2019s international zone, I felt safe. I stayed at the famous Al Rasheed Hotel. It\u2019s located in the international zone, where you\u2019ll only find embassies and little else.\u201d<\/p>\n\t

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Hanneke Takkenberg has been a professor of Clinical Decision Making in Cardio-Thoracic Interventions at Erasmus MC since 2012. In addition to that she is professor of Management Education focusing on Women in Business at RSM. She is co-executive director of the Erasmus Centre for Women and Organisations (ECWO) where she leads the centre\u2019s research initiatives. Previously she also worked as Chief Diversity Officer from 2015 until 2018.<\/p>\n\n\t<\/div>\n

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Hanneke Takkenberg at ECWO conference in 2024.<\/span><\/p>

\n\t\n\n<\/svg>\n<\/span>\n\tImage by:<\/span>\n\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\tChris Gorzeman<\/span>\t\t\t\t\t<\/span>\n\t<\/p>\n<\/figcaption><\/figure><\/div>

How did you end up in Iraq?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u201cI\u2019m a doctor and epidemiologist, and I\u2019m now also a professor of Management Education with a focus on women in organisations. Through the Erasmus Centre for Women and Organisations, we offer leadership programmes and training on building inclusive organisations. We teach women how to lead organisations and explore different management styles. We\u2019ve done this, for example, at the European Central Bank. After that, we were approached by the EU Advisory Mission to Iraq (EUAM), which wanted to implement a similar programme in Iraq. When I first read the request, I thought it was a joke.\u201d<\/p>\n

Why did you think it was a joke?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u201cI couldn\u2019t imagine it was real or even feasible. When I thought of Iraq, I immediately associated it with war. However, the country has experienced relatively stable political conditions for several years now. As we delved into it, we saw it as a tremendous challenge. This is something we had<\/em> to do. It\u2019s an opportunity to truly make a difference. We submitted a proposal to the EU, and they responded with: \u2018This is the best proposal we\u2019ve ever read, but it\u2019s too ambitious. What you\u2019re trying to achieve isn\u2019t realistic.\u2019\u201d<\/p>\n

What exactly was deemed unrealistic?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u201cWe approached it too much from our own perspective here. Through extensive discussions with the ministry, the differences became apparent. The more we listened, the more we realised: \u2018Wow, we\u2019re dealing with a very small minority of women.\u2019 Only 2 per cent of the Ministry\u2019s employees are women.<\/p>\n

\u201cBecause there are so few women, we had to take a much more cautious approach. Leadership styles differ, and what is acceptable for a man may not be for a woman. That\u2019s not unique to Iraq \u2013 it\u2019s the same here.<\/p>\n

\u201cFor instance, if a man is bossy, he\u2019s seen as a strong leader. If I\u2019m bossy, I\u2019m a witch. Now imagine that dynamic magnified there; you have to tread more carefully. The goal of this programme is to enhance the influence of female leaders, and the last thing you want is to provoke resistance due to the insights and skills we impart to these women.\u201d<\/p>\n

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Participants of the EUAM Iraq leadership course.<\/span><\/p>

\n\t\n\n<\/svg>\n<\/span>\n\tImage by:<\/span>\n\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\tEUAM Iraq<\/span>\t\t\t\t\t<\/span>\n\t<\/p>\n<\/figcaption><\/figure><\/div>

Can you tell us more about the programme? Where was it held, and who were the participants?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u201cWe conducted the sessions at the training centre of the EUAM and the ministry. Dorothy Grandia, Safiyeh Salehi Mobarakeh, and I were the facilitators. We had two groups of 25 women each, seated at round tables in groups of five. The participants were very diverse, ranging from defence personnel and police officers to civil servants. Some women were fully veiled, while others wore colourful dresses with pink pumps. Most, however, were in uniform. All of them radiated a strong commitment to achieving peace and stability in Iraq within a highly hierarchical system, despite being a very small minority as women.\u201d<\/p>\n

What did the programme involve?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u201cIt focused partly on building community and getting to know one another. Everything we did was interactive. We talked with the women about leadership styles, managing emotions, and effectively dealing with personal experiences. We discussed which situations they could influence and which they couldn\u2019t. We also talked about setting goals: what roles do they see for themselves, and what are their superpowers?<\/p>\n

\u201cWe used clips from the series The Exchange<\/em>, which portrays women disrupting the Kuwaiti stock market. One scene deals with the issue of toilets, which reminded me of the series Hidden Figures <\/em>\u2013 about women working at NASA during the space race \u2013 who had to use toilets in a different building because there weren\u2019t any for women.<\/p>\n

\u201cIt was a similar story at the ministry. The women laughed about it. There was one toilet for women on the left and five for men on the right. During the course, they put up a sign reversing the arrangement, and it stayed that way throughout the programme. That was wonderful to see.\u201d<\/p>\n

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Participants receive their certificate after successful participation in the course.<\/span><\/p>

\n\t\n\n<\/svg>\n<\/span>\n\tImage by:<\/span>\n\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\tEUAM Iraq<\/span>\t\t\t\t\t<\/span>\n\t<\/p>\n<\/figcaption><\/figure>

Was the programme a success?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u201cWe were told in advance not to expect too much. Similar programmes for men had faced significant challenges.<\/p>\n

\u201cBut every single participant completed our programme. We\u2019re proud of that outcome. The conclusion was celebrated with an official diploma ceremony, complete with a red carpet. It was a very special moment, and it really brought home how deeply tradition and culture matter there \u2013 far more than they do here.<\/p>\n

\u201cAll the women will continue with the advanced leadership programme in December. At that point, we\u2019ll also start setting up a women\u2019s network. Ultimately, we hope to develop a train-the-trainer programme so that the initiative can be sustained from within Iraq.\u201d<\/p>\n

Iraq is now a democracy with a government aiming to strengthen women\u2019s positions. Are you worried that the political climate might shift and undo everything?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u201cThe women were so optimistic \u2013 they didn\u2019t want to dwell on the past anymore, only look to the future. I was pleasantly surprised by the opportunities we saw in Iraq. It\u2019s certainly a volatile region, but I\u2019m not too worried about Iraq specifically. In the arrivals hall at the airport, there was a beautiful mosaic on the wall with the words: \u2018Welcome to the heart of peace.\u2019 I believe that\u2019s the aspiration of both the government and the people \u2013 at least the female leaders in our programme. I genuinely think they want to achieve that.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\t

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