{"id":112275,"date":"2020-04-09T13:45:19","date_gmt":"2020-04-09T11:45:19","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.erasmusmagazine.nl\/en\/?p=112275"},"modified":"2025-12-19T11:24:53","modified_gmt":"2025-12-19T10:24:53","slug":"we-will-increasingly-often-be-confronted-with-the-question-as-to-how-much-we-are-willing-to-pay-for-each-year-we-add-to-a-persons-life","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.erasmusmagazine.nl\/en\/2020\/04\/09\/we-will-increasingly-often-be-confronted-with-the-question-as-to-how-much-we-are-willing-to-pay-for-each-year-we-add-to-a-persons-life\/","title":{"rendered":"\u2018We will increasingly often be confronted with what we are willing to pay for each year we add to a person\u2019s life\u2019"},"content":{"rendered":"

According to philosopher Marli Huijer, the meaning of life is feeling connected to others. So all the sacrifices being made during this crisis are great, but as a society, we shouldn\u2019t lose sight of the bigger picture. \u201cWe should be mindful of our quality of death, just like we are mindful of our quality of life.\u201d<\/p>\n

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\n\t\n\n<\/svg>\n<\/span>\n\tImage by:<\/span>\n\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\tBas van der Schot<\/a>\t\t\t\t\t<\/span>\n\t<\/p>\n<\/figcaption><\/figure>

How are you coping with the quarantine situation?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u201cPersonally, I don\u2019t mind it too much. I\u2019m in the privileged position of living in a house with a garden, in Amsterdam, and I have a generously sized office where I do a lot of writing. As a writer, I\u2019m fairly used to being holed up in my room for several consecutive months while working on a new book. But in my capacity as a philosopher, I do have some reservations about the way in which people are being robbed of their liberty right now. During pandemics, people have no qualms whatsoever about renouncing the rights they have fought so hard to get. They tend to think: we\u2019ll regain those rights once it\u2019s all over. But history shows that this often isn\u2019t the case. Just take the Patriot Act which was passed by the US Congress after 11 September. Such emergencies may affect civil rights, privacy and the quality of a democracy permanently.\u201d<\/p>\n

But surely these measures are necessary?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u201cWhat does \u2018necessary\u2019 even mean? We are still not sure what exactly is going on, just how dangerous this virus actually is, how quickly a population can become immune and what the hidden costs of the measures we\u2019re taking at the moment will turn out to be. As a philosopher, I\u2019m curious to see the long term, the bigger picture. When a crisis like this hits, I\u2019m inclined to look up how many people die in a normal year: one hundred and fifty thousand. Those are all the people in the Netherlands who will die in a given year, typically of cardiovascular disease or cancer. Fewer and fewer people die of infectious diseases, as we eradicated most of those in the previous century. We may well see in the next few years that the percentage of people who die because of infectious diseases rises, while the number of people dying of cancer and cardiovascular disease is reduced.\u201d<\/p>\n

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\n\t\n\n<\/svg>\n<\/span>\n\tImage by:<\/span>\n\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\tRonald van den Heerik<\/a>\t\t\t\t\t<\/span>\n\t<\/p>\n<\/figcaption><\/figure>

Are you saying we should just let the virus do its thing, because those people are going to die, anyway \u2013 if not because of the coronavirus, then because of something else?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u201cThat would imply that I have an answer to that question, which I don\u2019t. And I don\u2019t have to have one, either. I\u2019m not the president of RIVM [the National Institute for Public Health and the Environment \u2013 ed.], nor the prime minister of the Netherlands. I\u2019m a philosopher who is saying that we should look at this from every angle before making any decisions. If we do that, it\u2019s vital that we ask questions that provide a clearer view of the bigger picture, so that we can weigh all the pros and cons. By the way, I think the Netherlands is doing a pretty good job. We didn\u2019t lock down the entire country in one fell swoop, but we are changing our strategy all the time and are making informed, data-based decisions on our course of action. And people are allowed to question the measures taken in public.\u201d<\/p>\n

Isn\u2019t the hardest thing about the current situation the fact that we\u2019ve never dealt with anything like this before?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u201cI\u2019m not so sure about that. In the early 1980s the Netherlands was struck by AIDS, which was caused by a virus that, unlike this pandemic, hit a lot of young people, particularly gay people and intravenous drug users. I was a doctor in Amsterdam at the time, working at an interest group representing the latter group, and I saw a lot of people die around me. In association with the GGD [the Regional Public Health Service \u2013 ed.], we embarked on a small project whereby drug addicts could exchange their used needles for new and clean needles on Friday afternoons. A lot of people strenuously objected to that arrangement, because they felt it would encourage people to take drugs. But I think we saved a lot of lives by doing it. I kind of miss those creative solutions, the \u2018taking care of things ourselves\u2019. All I\u2019m hearing now is: more testing required, more testing, testing, we must self-isolate, and we must track people using apps. All our strategies appear to be technology-based.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\t

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\n\t\t\u2018Life doesn\u2019t have any meaning anyway. You can give it some meaning through your daily encounters with others\u2019\n\t<\/blockquote>\n\n\t<\/figure>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t<\/div>\n

What has been the most drastic change to your daily life during the current coronavirus crisis?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u201cI miss my daily contacts with people a lot. Normally, I will catch a train to Rotterdam twice a week to teach lectures. I\u2019ll have coffee with friends and do things with my children or grandchildren. And although I sometimes resent those commutes, I now really wish I could be out there at the station, among people, chatting with others while holding a cup of coffee in my hand. Life feels barren to me.\u201d<\/p>\n

Many people are experiencing a bit of an existential crisis due to their being so isolated. Are you experiencing anything like that?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u201cIn order to get everything done that I wish to get done, I\u2019ve drawn up a tight daily schedule for myself. That helps me a lot. I don\u2019t have much time to wonder about the meaning of all of this. I\u2019m not particularly fond of the meaning-of-life question anyway\u2026\u201d<\/p>\n

I thought that was the question philosophers try to answer all day every day.<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u201cIf I have a choice in the matter, I\u2019ll try to ignore that question, rather than trying to answer it. I do so by creating a pleasant life for myself, complete with benchmarks and things to look forward to. The mere thought of something fun coming up \u2013 this afternoon I\u2019m going on a one-hour walk with my daughter, and I\u2019ve been looking forward to it for the last few days \u2013 ensures that I never actually ask myself what the meaning of life might be. Life doesn\u2019t have any meaning anyway. You can give it some meaning through your daily encounters with others \u2013 by figuring out what you mean to others and what other people mean to you. That\u2019s all there is to it.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\t

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\n\t\t\u2018You may be tempted to just go on and on until you drop\u2019\n\t<\/blockquote>\n\n\t<\/figure>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t<\/div>\n

Do you have any tips on how to deal with the fact that we\u2019ve lost some structure to our lives?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u201cI spend an hour each morning walking through Amsterdam with my partner. We find a neighbourhood that\u2019s quiet, so that we are able to keep our distance from others. This is how I get my one hour\u2019s daylight and exercise every day. I think it\u2019s very important to ask yourself: suppose this quarantine lasts two or three months. What do you want to do during this period, or what do you wish to have achieved by the end of it? Then the next question you need to ask yourself is: how can I schedule my activities in such a way that I will be able to do all of that? You may be tempted to just go on and on until you drop.\u201d<\/p>\n

Exactly. I\u2019m happy just being able to put my toddler to sleep in the evening and get my home looking somewhat tidy again.<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u201cAs soon as you\u2019ve figured out what it is you want, you can work out how to organise it in such a way that you won\u2019t have to spend all day doing it. Furthermore, it\u2019s important that you organise your social contacts. You could do so by calling someone every day and trying to schedule one single walk, but alternatively, you could ask this one person: would you mind going on a walk with me every Wednesday morning? This will add a bit of structure to your week and will prevent you from asking yourself three months from now what you\u2019ve actually done these last few months, only to admit that you wasted all that time. Which is perfectly fine, by the way, but only if that is actually your goal.\u201d<\/p>\n

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\n\t\n\n<\/svg>\n<\/span>\n\tImage by:<\/span>\n\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\tBas van der Schot<\/a>\t\t\t\t\t<\/span>\n\t<\/p>\n<\/figcaption><\/figure>

Last Saturday de Volkskrant published an interview with philosopher Beate Roessler on the subject of solidarity. She said the coronavirus is getting us to face up to our universal vulnerability, and as a result, we are keeping a closer eye on each other. Do you agree with that? Do you think this pandemic may help us strengthen our bonds with each other?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u201cI\u2019m really not sure. In that interview, she praised this Cabinet\u2019s Kantian way of thinking: each human life is equally precious and must be saved. But as a former general practitioner, I\u2019m also well aware of the healthcare system\u2019s limited resources. If you focus your attention on one patient in your waiting room, you have less attention for another. In Western societies, our population is ageing. Also, people have become more ambitious. Today\u2019s 55-year-olds aren\u2019t satisfied with living another 29 years, like the average person. They want more. But that costs money. A lot of money. Money that must be paid by younger generations. So we might want to say that older people, who generally have poorer immune systems and are therefore more susceptible to infectious diseases, must show greater solidarity with young people. They must accept that life is finite.\u201d<\/p>\n

What does this mean in practical terms? Should 70-year-olds renounce their beds in intensive care units so that younger people can have them?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u201cThis type of responsibility should not be borne by one person. But as far as policy-making is concerned, we will increasingly often be confronted with the question as to how much we are willing to pay for each year we add to a person\u2019s life. At present, that amount has been fixed<\/a> at eighty thousand euros. Now that there is a shortage of resources, time, doctors and ICU beds, I\u2019m sure we will have quite the debate on that.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\t

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\n\t\t\u2018It\u2019s just that for me, death is part of life. And we should be mindful of our quality of death, just like we are mindful of our quality of life\u2019\n\t<\/blockquote>\n\n\t<\/figure>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t<\/div>\n

Do you have any concerns about your own health?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u201cI\u2019m 65 and I have an autoimmune disorder, so I\u2019m at higher risk for the virus. My way of thinking is as follows: I have to make sure I get enough exercise, a proper diet and enough sleep. But if I\u2019m unfortunate enough \u2013 that\u2019s the way I look at it \u2013 to be infected and to have my body respond so badly that I end up dying, so be it. This may sound like an easy thing to say, but it\u2019s not. It\u2019s just that for me, death is part of life. And we should be mindful of our quality of death, just like we are mindful of our quality of life.\u201d<\/p>\n

How do you go about that?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u201cThat\u2019s the hard thing, because coming to terms with death is something you mainly learn by watching someone die. Most students thankfully won\u2019t have had to do so yet, unless they are medical students or have lost a parent or loved one at a young age. Death is no longer part of our daily lives. Dying has become something only very old people do. But you can start by discussing it with your partner, your loved ones or your parents. If I should fall very ill, do I actually wish to be admitted to an intensive care unit? Do I wish to be hospitalised at all? Who do I want with me at a time like that? Those are uncomfortable questions, but they have to be asked. Particularly at times like these.\u201d<\/p>\n\t

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Marli Huijer is a professor of Public Philosophy at Erasmus University, as well as a former general practitioner. She was awarded a PhD for a thesis on the works of Michel Foucault, served as the Netherlands\u2019 Thinker Laureate (Denker des Vaderlands) between 2015 and 2017 and wrote countless philosophical books on seemingly mundane subjects, such as Ritme <\/em>(2011), Discipline <\/em>(2013) and Beminnen <\/em>(2018). Her latest book, on Islam in Europe, is scheduled for publication this autumn.<\/p>\n\n\t<\/div>\n\n\t

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